One aspect not yet covered is the unifying effect which US involvement would enormously enhance in favor of the current regime. Bad! While the theocratic government is animus to us, the Persian people are not...in fact they are our friends. Our involvement would not only alienate them, but drive them to support and strengthen their otherwise disliked government. So Michael, I vote a strong No to involvement notwithstanding the eloquent arguments you put in favor thereof.
The US should stay out of the Iran/Israeli conflict. The only justification for US involvement is a direct Iranian attack on US assets in the Mid-East. American involvement just opens up an unknown can of worms.
No downsides to invading Iraq? What are you smoking? Starting a decadal long war under patently false pretenses... Which leads to 100s of thousands of direct deaths and perhaps up to million related deaths (depending on who's counting). Then throwing our Kurdish allies under the bus as we withdraw had a terrible impact on global perceptions of the sole 2003 world superpower. GW Bush was incredibly naive and the war hawks of the era fed the rise of USA centric nationalism we are living with today. Letting #47 start a war with anyone is foolish, the plans would be immediately leaked by our own Sec. of Defense anyway. Israel is more than capable of bombing Iran again in a year to keep their nuclear aspirations periodically in check.
I withdraw my previous suggestions. Let Israel keep their feet on the necks of the Ayatollahs. Get rid of the Ayatollahs. What could be simpler? Disappear them. Put the lives of the evil ones on the line. Protect the people.
All well and good, what you write, BUT... Not only did Trump tear up the earlier agreement, as one of your readers has already commented. The US has a dirty, stupid track record of doing in the Persian people, going back to to 1953 when the US and UK overthrew the democratically elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh because (among other progressive programs) it nationalized the Persian oil industry. With US and UK support the Shah became an absolute monarch under whom some progressive social programs were kept in place, but many problems were ignored. Dissent was suppressed, whether it came from the left or from the religious right. The Shah's repression became closely identified with the support he had from the US so that when he was deposed it was easy for the religious fundamentalists who took over to paint him as having been a creature of the Great Satan, the United States. If the US now backs Israel in its attempt to destroy the Islamic state in Iran It will once more alienate the Persian people. Arguably the US would have much more to gain by reining in Israeli aggression and preventing total humiliation of Iran.
Donald Trump proved not 72 hours ago that he cannot stage a decent military parade, and you want to make him a wartime president? Do you really trust the people around him to make responsible decisions? The lunacy of supporting Trump in this can be seen in the email I just got from AOC's people: she's signing on to a bill sponsored by arch-Neanderthal Thomas Massie, who wants the decision to go to war to reside with Congress, as it should. Read Brian Beutler's 14 arguments against this bad idea. (Okay, two of which are just "No.")
As a reminder: Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar, and a deeply ignorant sociopath. I wouldn't trust him--or the sycophants around him, including (especially) those in the Pentagon--to mount a campaign to rid a White House garden of dandelions, let alone allow him to give orders to the US military.
The United States already joined Israel to defeat the Hamas faction of the Palestinians. Israel was attacked by this small group who killed over 1500 Israelis . In response to the attack, using the aid of America weapons Israel went on to kill over 50,000 Palestinians. Men, women and children, the prime minister-Netanyahu, used U.S. weapons to literally destroy a country smaller than ours the size of Delaware .
Now Trump’s being put in the middle of the conflict between Israel and Iran risking the possibility of being drawn into another war because Israel doesn’t have the necessary bombs to make certain that they don’t get attacked without the help of the United States military.
It’s time for both sides of Congress to put a stop to Trump’s reckless foreign policy. With one side or the other Trump will lose the will of the majority of the people in the country. Killing countless innocent lives for what, for nothing! I do not believe that even the majority of Americans with Jewish roots or faith would support another all out war
Trump was a flea among giants at G7, just as he is at any gathering of world leaders. No doubt he aspires to be held in the same esteem, and could easily view this conflict as a chance to do that. Taking credit for Israel's successes, having just basked in the glow of his ridiculous military parade, he's no doubt itching to prove his chops as a great commander-in-chief. The impossible dream.
You missed the point that Iran's nuclear program cannot be truly destroyed without boots on the ground. Iran now also has incentive for a dirty bomb or other WMD attack through its proxies, since the country is already being bombed flat. Lastly, Russia and China do not want the US to have the opportunity to practice destroying hardened nuclear sites so that the US air force can later force regime change in Pyongyang or Moscow. The possibility of a catastrophic nuclear miscalculation will rise if the US enters the war.
So, this is it! The war in the Middle East the U.S. will finally, definitely, easily win. At last, we can undo what we once did and the best part is, there won’t be any adverse outcomes. And General Trump has such a reassuring ring to it. He may not be competent to do anything else, but waging a simple war with Iran will highlight his decisiveness, command of history, and general curiosity about the world. Bombs away!
Given the boobs in charge of the intelligence in this administration, I'm am reluctant to approve this. Also, we may open ourselves up to terrorist attacks, especially since our CIA and FBI have been decimated. If it was another administration, then it could be a positive thing.
Long-term, U.S. involvement in another Middle East (“ME”) conflict would assuredly exacerbate an already significant intense revulsion by many in the Muslim world against the perceived bravado of a foreign power and its interference once again in the affairs of ME countries where it has no legitimacy beyond self-interest. This interference would likely increase conflict for decades to come between ME countries and the Western world. We should not be the solution to the ME problems. The ME has to be the solution to the ME problems - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, etc. The U.S. could pursue a discussion along those lines with these other ME countries.
"To bomb or not to bomb" is not the only question. Israel brought Iran to its knees. We must not lose this opportunity that Israel has gifted to us. A clever administration devoted to American values could make history.
Do we believe in killing people? Under some circumstances, yes. Do we want to stop Iran from fostering killings? Yes.
What Israel needs is a B-2 and bunker busters. Lets loan them to the Israelis. Let them finish what they started. Conditions include: Announce intent so the Iranian people, our friends, can leave the area. Restitution for what they lost.
The morality looks bad. The US tore up the nuclear agreement that Iran was abiding by, and now is going to bomb Iran because it's enriching uranium?
One aspect not yet covered is the unifying effect which US involvement would enormously enhance in favor of the current regime. Bad! While the theocratic government is animus to us, the Persian people are not...in fact they are our friends. Our involvement would not only alienate them, but drive them to support and strengthen their otherwise disliked government. So Michael, I vote a strong No to involvement notwithstanding the eloquent arguments you put in favor thereof.
The US should stay out of the Iran/Israeli conflict. The only justification for US involvement is a direct Iranian attack on US assets in the Mid-East. American involvement just opens up an unknown can of worms.
No downsides to invading Iraq? What are you smoking? Starting a decadal long war under patently false pretenses... Which leads to 100s of thousands of direct deaths and perhaps up to million related deaths (depending on who's counting). Then throwing our Kurdish allies under the bus as we withdraw had a terrible impact on global perceptions of the sole 2003 world superpower. GW Bush was incredibly naive and the war hawks of the era fed the rise of USA centric nationalism we are living with today. Letting #47 start a war with anyone is foolish, the plans would be immediately leaked by our own Sec. of Defense anyway. Israel is more than capable of bombing Iran again in a year to keep their nuclear aspirations periodically in check.
I withdraw my previous suggestions. Let Israel keep their feet on the necks of the Ayatollahs. Get rid of the Ayatollahs. What could be simpler? Disappear them. Put the lives of the evil ones on the line. Protect the people.
All well and good, what you write, BUT... Not only did Trump tear up the earlier agreement, as one of your readers has already commented. The US has a dirty, stupid track record of doing in the Persian people, going back to to 1953 when the US and UK overthrew the democratically elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh because (among other progressive programs) it nationalized the Persian oil industry. With US and UK support the Shah became an absolute monarch under whom some progressive social programs were kept in place, but many problems were ignored. Dissent was suppressed, whether it came from the left or from the religious right. The Shah's repression became closely identified with the support he had from the US so that when he was deposed it was easy for the religious fundamentalists who took over to paint him as having been a creature of the Great Satan, the United States. If the US now backs Israel in its attempt to destroy the Islamic state in Iran It will once more alienate the Persian people. Arguably the US would have much more to gain by reining in Israeli aggression and preventing total humiliation of Iran.
Supplemental: Lucas Kunce's Substack today (https://open.substack.com/pub/lucaskunce/p/israel-iran?r=dxx5j&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false) makes similar points more coherently, if at greater length. Read it!
Donald Trump proved not 72 hours ago that he cannot stage a decent military parade, and you want to make him a wartime president? Do you really trust the people around him to make responsible decisions? The lunacy of supporting Trump in this can be seen in the email I just got from AOC's people: she's signing on to a bill sponsored by arch-Neanderthal Thomas Massie, who wants the decision to go to war to reside with Congress, as it should. Read Brian Beutler's 14 arguments against this bad idea. (Okay, two of which are just "No.")
As a reminder: Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar, and a deeply ignorant sociopath. I wouldn't trust him--or the sycophants around him, including (especially) those in the Pentagon--to mount a campaign to rid a White House garden of dandelions, let alone allow him to give orders to the US military.
The United States already joined Israel to defeat the Hamas faction of the Palestinians. Israel was attacked by this small group who killed over 1500 Israelis . In response to the attack, using the aid of America weapons Israel went on to kill over 50,000 Palestinians. Men, women and children, the prime minister-Netanyahu, used U.S. weapons to literally destroy a country smaller than ours the size of Delaware .
Now Trump’s being put in the middle of the conflict between Israel and Iran risking the possibility of being drawn into another war because Israel doesn’t have the necessary bombs to make certain that they don’t get attacked without the help of the United States military.
It’s time for both sides of Congress to put a stop to Trump’s reckless foreign policy. With one side or the other Trump will lose the will of the majority of the people in the country. Killing countless innocent lives for what, for nothing! I do not believe that even the majority of Americans with Jewish roots or faith would support another all out war
Trump was a flea among giants at G7, just as he is at any gathering of world leaders. No doubt he aspires to be held in the same esteem, and could easily view this conflict as a chance to do that. Taking credit for Israel's successes, having just basked in the glow of his ridiculous military parade, he's no doubt itching to prove his chops as a great commander-in-chief. The impossible dream.
You missed the point that Iran's nuclear program cannot be truly destroyed without boots on the ground. Iran now also has incentive for a dirty bomb or other WMD attack through its proxies, since the country is already being bombed flat. Lastly, Russia and China do not want the US to have the opportunity to practice destroying hardened nuclear sites so that the US air force can later force regime change in Pyongyang or Moscow. The possibility of a catastrophic nuclear miscalculation will rise if the US enters the war.
So, this is it! The war in the Middle East the U.S. will finally, definitely, easily win. At last, we can undo what we once did and the best part is, there won’t be any adverse outcomes. And General Trump has such a reassuring ring to it. He may not be competent to do anything else, but waging a simple war with Iran will highlight his decisiveness, command of history, and general curiosity about the world. Bombs away!
Given the boobs in charge of the intelligence in this administration, I'm am reluctant to approve this. Also, we may open ourselves up to terrorist attacks, especially since our CIA and FBI have been decimated. If it was another administration, then it could be a positive thing.
Long-term, U.S. involvement in another Middle East (“ME”) conflict would assuredly exacerbate an already significant intense revulsion by many in the Muslim world against the perceived bravado of a foreign power and its interference once again in the affairs of ME countries where it has no legitimacy beyond self-interest. This interference would likely increase conflict for decades to come between ME countries and the Western world. We should not be the solution to the ME problems. The ME has to be the solution to the ME problems - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, etc. The U.S. could pursue a discussion along those lines with these other ME countries.
"To bomb or not to bomb" is not the only question. Israel brought Iran to its knees. We must not lose this opportunity that Israel has gifted to us. A clever administration devoted to American values could make history.
Do we believe in killing people? Under some circumstances, yes. Do we want to stop Iran from fostering killings? Yes.
What Israel needs is a B-2 and bunker busters. Lets loan them to the Israelis. Let them finish what they started. Conditions include: Announce intent so the Iranian people, our friends, can leave the area. Restitution for what they lost.
Gazprom is already saved now because of the initial strikes, wasn’t that the real reason Israel attacked to start with? 😉